ACES - >Rec 709

[Virgil Edward]

Is it possible to use the ACEScc color space ver. 1.0 then output it as a TIFF file Rec 709? This means that the output will revert back to the default color space of DaVinci Resolve right? 

 

What I want to achieve is that, my output will be directly used by the VFX compositors disregarding the aces workflow. Thanks!

[Margus Voll]

You just leave REC709 display transform on and render rec with burn in so to say?

[Virgil Edward]

what do you mean by burn in? sorry I'm very new to this aces workflow.

I just want to utilize the color space of ACES inside resolve then output it as non-ACES format like TIFF. Is that possible?

[Orash Rahnema]

You can output to whatever you like and the ODT will command the look of your output.

So if your ODT is set to REC709 then your file, whatever they are (tiff, dpx, exr, mov, mxf...) will be translated into rec709 plus your grade (if you grade it)

[Cary Knoop]

12 hours ago, Virgil Edward said:

what do you mean by burn in? sorry I'm very new to this aces workflow.

I just want to utilize the color space of ACES inside resolve then output it as non-ACES format like TIFF. Is that possible?

You might want to consider using EXR output.  But the cc version of ACES might not be your best option.

 

[Virgil Edward]

Are there any advantages in using ACES in non ACES workflows? Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions! Much appreciated. 

[Orash Rahnema]

if it's a vfx job it's better if anyone use the same colour science to avoid problems, artefacts or anything down the pipe.

For example, a compositor composite an alexa footage with some photoshop elements, stock elements or 3d elements under a rec709 display lut. In nuke it looks good, so no problem.

Then he export a flat comp for you to grade it.

You start working in ACES using an alexa IDT, the alexa footage works fine but the comped element goes crazy as it's transformed with the alexa idt as well.

So you end up going crazy doing lots of keys or masks to get the thing back where it belongs.

if you both work in ACES, the compositor sees the same thing as you see (the beauty of aces) he can take care of the problems in comp and he knows exactely how you are going to see it's comp as well.

Or you both work in YRGB and the comp knows roughly how you are going to see the result at the end, but it's a safe route that everyone knows.

Hope makes sense.

 

 

[Virgil Edward]

15 hours ago, Orash Rahnema said:

if it's a vfx job it's better if anyone use the same colour science to avoid problems, artefacts or anything down the pipe.

For example, a compositor composite an alexa footage with some photoshop elements, stock elements or 3d elements under a rec709 display lut. In nuke it looks good, so no problem.

Then he export a flat comp for you to grade it.

You start working in ACES using an alexa IDT, the alexa footage works fine but the comped element goes crazy as it's transformed with the alexa idt as well.

So you end up going crazy doing lots of keys or masks to get the thing back where it belongs.

if you both work in ACES, the compositor sees the same thing as you see (the beauty of aces) he can take care of the problems in comp and he knows exactely how you are going to see it's comp as well.

Or you both work in YRGB and the comp knows roughly how you are going to see the result at the end, but it's a safe route that everyone knows.

Hope makes sense.

 

 

Thanks for this in-depth answer Orash, I really appreciate it and it gave me a wider understanding of using ACES. 

 

Last question though, in our workflow, grading comes first then the vfx artists will match their comps with the grade, then if there are fixes to be made in the grading it will be post graded in the online with the output of the vfx artists, meaning I will not go back to the original grade, if it's only minor fix ups. In using ACES in the grading, the only advantage of using it is the color space right? If my output will be non ACES? Is our workflow ideal or should we revise it? Most of our projects are commercials. Thanks!

[Margus Voll]

I would say print like feel is another thing to keep in mind not just colorspace.
How whites do not clip ever but go white as over exposed film for example.

I use ACES in commercials and i really like it there.

See here:

 

[Virgil Edward]

18 minutes ago, Margus Voll said:

I would say print like feel is another thing to keep in mind not just colorspace.
How whites do not clip ever but go white as over exposed film for example.

I use ACES in commercials and i really like it there.

See here:

 

Lovely colors you got here Margus! Did you use the ACES workflow (with the EXR output etc) or only in Resolve? 

[Margus Voll]

This project only in resolve and REC Prores to client in the end.
Had another job with heavy wfx where more EXR gor hurt in the process.

[Virgil Edward]

Great! Thank you for sharing your experience Margus, that made me more thrilled to use ACES in a project. It's good to know that a fellow colorist used it as well without using the exr workflow. 

[Orash Rahnema]

Just like margus i use aces in quite a lot of my Jobs for the exact same reason he describe. 

Once rendered then its the same as every other workflow. 

Doing adv most of the time i work in aces, render in prores o dpx and then online Comp everything with no problem

[Margus Voll]

Also what i missed to describe is that cameras with wide gamut sensors give you more colors to work with.
I mean here Arri, RED, and Ursa Mini cameras mainly and not cheap Canon and Sony models.

 

[Joseph Owens]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:35 AM, Orash Rahnema said:

You start working in ACES using an alexa IDT, the alexa footage works fine but the comped element goes crazy as it's transformed with the alexa idt as well.

So you end up going crazy doing lots of keys or masks to get the thing back where it belongs.

This is not how it is supposed to work.  You can reassign the IDT per source clip, so if a composite comes back to you, then assign a 709 IDT to it, and no further conditioning should apply. It might go crazy (will go crazy) if the "Project" IDT (which might be Alexa) is assigned by default.

jPo, CSI

 

[Orash Rahnema]

@Joseph Owens 

Yes, you are totally right, sorry i overlooked the thing while writing.

Although I have so say that it happen to me many times that, even with the supousedly correct idt, i had trouble with some footage, most of the time it was mattepaint.

[Margus Voll]

Matte is grayscale so in some cases bypass should work good.

[Julien Alary]

Hi there.

 

I wish I was more technical or had a technical person in my household. 

I'm doing a project where I get ACES 2065 EXRs in and I need to output dpx rec709 in the end. 

What would be your colour journey in Resolve? 

The shots looks decent and flat when I use:

color managed 

 

input color space ACES

timeline color space rec709 2.4

output color space rec709 2.4

 

Just want to be sure I do the right thing here. 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

[Margus Voll]

Make aces project, Assuming you get clean aces and not any variation, if variation aces CC, CG, CTT tag input accordinglu, set odt to rec 709.

If all looks good jut render.